The following is a transcript of an interview with House Appropriations Committee chair Rep. Tom Cole, Republican of Oklahoma, that aired on April 21, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to Oklahoma Republican Congressman Tom Cole. Good morning.
REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you have been the lead sponsor on Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan payments. And I do know this was a giant determination for the speaker to carry the vote in any respect. The Polish Prime Minister tweeted, “Speaker Johnson, thanks. Better late than too late. And I hope it’s not too late for Ukraine.” How do you measure the price of inaction over the previous six months?
REP. COLE: Well, to start with, the Senate solely handed the invoice 65 days in the past. And it isn’t like the Speaker did not produce other issues to do. He needed to get all the appropriations completed.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was an emergency – they have been working out of ammunition.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: Well, once more, this administration waited some time, the Senate took some time, and we had different enterprise underway, nevertheless it obtained completed and obtained completed in a bipartisan means. He confirmed unbelievable management. And frankly, he gave us a rule that’s the construction during which we thought-about all these completely different issues the place each single member obtained to vote the means they wished to on each single challenge. That wasn’t the case in the Senate. I feel really, after they observe the instance now we have, you may see extra assist for Ukraine than we most likely noticed in the authentic vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But to be honest, we’re not speaking a couple of coverage debate -debate that does not have a direct impression on the battlefield. I imply, the Supreme Allied Commander testified earlier than Congress on April 10, Ukrainians are being out shot by the Russian aspect 5 to at least one due to this debate. The delay.
REP. COLE: I’m sorry, democracy is form of a messy enterprise. And the actuality is, it is completed. So it moved by. It moved by on a really bipartisan foundation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: More Republicans voted towards it, than voted for it.
REP. COLE: Well, look, it is about an excellent cut up. And fairly frankly, if you happen to actually wish to take a look at the hardcore Republican opposition, go to the movement to recommit or take a look at the invoice to strip funding from Ukraine. It’s about two to at least one, really three to at least one on the movement to recommit. This is politics, there’s such a factor as a “vote no, hope sure” crowd in each caucus. I can go down that record and inform you the member simply mentioned, Okay, you bought the votes, you do not want me. So I feel there’s –
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That could be a enjoyable recreation. I’d take just a few names off that record.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: It’s politics. Well, I’m not essential of anyone – the actuality is now we have overwhelming bipartisan assist for every a part of this package deal. It was structured in a means that it allowed members to vote, make the factors they wished to make, and admittedly, in the event that they want political cowl, do it, nevertheless it obtained completed. So I’m, I’m fairly happy with the Speaker.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to speak to you extra on the different aspect of this break. But simply you’re in there, acknowledging if you say “vote no, hope sure” that there have been Republicans who needed to vote no. Because of the political strain, and the battle inside your individual celebration.
REP. COLE: No, they felt they needed to. People –
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who wished it to move?
REP. COLE: You assume no one makes political calculations in the United States Senate or in the administration? Welcome to American politics. But the level is, take a look at the numbers. Look at the overwhelming bipartisan numbers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re going to try this –
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: Over and over
MARGARET BRENNAN:– on the different aspect of this break. Stay right here. We’ll be proper again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face The Nation. We wish to proceed our dialog now with Oklahoma Republican Congressman Tom Cole. Congressman, earlier than the break, we have been speaking about this vote the House had yesterday to show the $95 billion package deal. There was a choice right here for Speaker Johnson, that was an vital one, he mainly put his job on the line. As we all know, there’s this motion amongst House conservatives led by Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene to attempt to oust him from energy, partly as a result of this Ukraine assist invoice. Do you assume it is a actual risk to his management?
REP. COLE: Well, I take something significantly. But no, I do not. Look, I feel it is a comparatively small variety of Republican members, frankly, simply because it was in McCarthy’s case, there have been solely eight folks. But the level is I do not assume there’s unified Democratic assist, there was unified Democratic assist. To take away the speaker. I feel either side have now seen how harmful that is how irresponsible it’s. And fairly frankly, I feel it is unlikely that Democrats who supported Ukraine, not as many assist Israel, as we might have preferred, however they did assist Ukraine. I feel they’re unlikely to take away the speaker with that every one although, to be honest, they eliminated McCarthy after he did what he requested them to do, which was hold the authorities funded. But once more, I do not assume that is going to occur this case, but when someone desires to do it, it is inside the guidelines, they usually can take their shot.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
But what you are saying there’s that Democrats, you belief would defend speaker Johnson from being as they would not vote to do it.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: I do not assume you’d lose very many Republicans. We did not lose very many Republicans with McCarthy. So it would not take very many Democrats to both not vote or oppose it. And I do not- frankly, I do not assume we might lose the identical variety of Republicans that we misplaced with Kevin McCarthy. I feel even people who disagree with the Speaker–
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You would not get to eight Republicans, they’ve gotten to three–
REP. COLE: I do not assume so–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Marjorie Taylor Greene–
(END CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: –look, I- I feel lots of people that like the speaker, that respect the speaker, even after they disagree with him. They know he is sincere. He’s a straight shooter. They additionally had a style of what it is wish to go with no Speaker for 3 weeks. I do not assume they need that once more, I actually do not assume they need it near an election.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former Speaker Gingrich mentioned, “The demons that Matt Gaetz unleashed by going after Kevin McCarthy are nonetheless on the market. You cannot govern by taking pictures your self in the head on daily basis.” How does Speaker Johnson get something completed?
REP. COLE: Well, to start with, he simply obtained quite a bit completed. He’s gotten each appropriations invoice handed. He’s gotten FISA by, he simply obtained this consequential–
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: But he has to rely on Democratic votes, which he is being faulted for by members of his celebration.
REP. COLE: –so he is really been, you know- it’s- nicely, that is advantageous. I imply, honestly- no.
(END CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: Every appropriations invoice is bipartisan at the finish of the day, they only work that means. So most of these- and one thing like FISA should be bipartisan. I really assume he is, you realize, empowered the middle and marginalized the extremes on- on all sides. Now, is there some danger with that? Sure. But the level is, he is gotten quite a bit completed. I feel folks admire him. They genuinely like him. They all respect him. Every single Republican voted for him. I do not assume that another particular person might have completed that at the time aside from Mike Johnson. So the reservoir of goodwill is gigantic. I- I feel he is a lot stronger than the folks appear to assume. And I feel he is demonstrated that by what he is handed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If- to start with, do you assume Republicans after November could have the majority, and in that case, he may very well be reelected?
REP. COLE: I do, as a result of I feel we’re prone to win the presidency. I feel that is fairly easy. I used to do politics for a dwelling, I suppose I nonetheless do. But the actuality is, the person who wins the presidency, you are most likely going to take the House. It’s shut sufficient that that most likely makes a distinction. I feel we’ll win. So I feel we could have the House.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, good to have you ever here–
REP. COLE: Great privilege. Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — In particular person, We’ll be proper again.
